I really must ask opinions on this

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I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Drea on Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:52 pm

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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by mudflap on Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:40 pm

Although not mis conduct it could be argued that if your seeking this other employment, your employer is looking out for his best interests by seeking another employee. I dont think I would go so far as to sack some one for it atleast if the person told me we would have the opertunity ot resolve the issue or start looking for a replacement rather than being left in the learch when the person finds new employment and leaves, but some people have funny ideas
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by hewey on Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:28 am

Drea wrote:However, apparently with these Work Choices laws you can't lodge an unfair dismissal claim if you're in a business of under 100 employees. Which is stupid really.

I think thats it. I heard on the news the Rudd Government has reccomended this be lowered to 15 employees. You might be best ringing the dep. industrial relations direct and asking? Unfortuneately, it all depends on who you get as to whether you'll get any useful advice or not, like any gov department... Rolling Eyes

Good luck! Sounds like you making the right decision to bail though! Very Happy
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by mudflap on Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:22 am

I'm not 100% up to date on the reformed work choises, but the old one was nothing special on many levels, did you know regardles of organsiation size if your package is over 111k there is no unfair dissmissal?

as a personal bit of advise though, even if the person could be awarded there job back would they want it? you know full well the boss is jsut going to make sure they dot there i's and cross there t's before punting them again, and as forhte punted person they were looking for other employment any way, how much do you want to battel for the pittance of compensation that may be available, I'd jsut chalk the employer up as a tosser and move on finding the alternative employment I was looking for at the begining of this sorry mess, o hang on thats exacty what I did when I got this job, I jsut didnt tell my previos employer they found out through other means and punted me
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by shippy on Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:47 am

yeh mudflap has a point. Even if there was somthing u could do, For what u would have to go through to get anywhere, would it be worth the effort? and chances are even with all the effort u still wouldnt get anywhere. better off cuting y our losses. If your employer is gonna be like that then u r better off out of there.
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Drea on Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:20 pm

Well of course it would be better to not work for the guy anymore. But when money is an issue, sometimes you really can't just count your losses and run. I'm more trying to find things out so that say, information can be shown to the boss and then say 'you can't do that! ner ner!'

In the least I've discovered that they HAVE to give you offical notice (3 weeks in this case) before they terminate you. Which certainly helps!

Anyway thanks for your help guys, it's not necessarily for me and even though it's not me it still makes me angry and I'm doing my best to help.

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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by mike hunt on Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:13 am

first this will sound bad, BUT you were looking for another job and would have left your employer in the learch, BUT when the shoe's on the other foot it sucks hay
ever heard the saying do unto others

that's what's wrong these days everybody thinks there employer owes them a job

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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Sianne on Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:41 am

Drea give the Work Choices office a call Very Happy
I had a lot of issues with my previous employer & they were helpful.

No matter the size of the business, you need to be given fair notice & your annual leave paid out.
As to the "Less than 100 employee's" business.. completely true. You can sneeze & they can give you your notice to leave. Ridiculous really but that's what I was told 2 months ago.

TRY TO HANG ONTO YOUR JOB!! I've been out of work 2 months now & I'm very qualified for all the jobs I've been looking at.. but each application is being compared to sooooo many others Sad
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Drea on Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:11 pm

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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by mike hunt on Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:16 am

well if the place was so bad why are you whinging about getting sacked
i'de have told them to shove there job before i got sacked

but still if you found a job you'de have been outta there, he just got in first and you don't like it

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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by The Zed on Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:39 am

At least you can go on Kev's Surfing Team with no waiting period. If you left your employ to hopfully take another position that didn't turn out you'd have a six week waiting period.
Cheers The Zed...................
Drea, Do you do Retail?
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by mudflap on Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:40 am

Drea wrote:
mike hunt wrote:first this will sound bad, BUT you were looking for another job and would have left your employer in the learch, BUT when the shoe's on the other foot it sucks hay
ever heard the saying do unto others

that's what's wrong these days everybody thinks there employer owes them a job

Haha, no way this employer is being left in the lurch! Pulling a hard working employee out of the TAFE part of an apprenticeship because they and I quote 'don't want to pay for you to not be here' is leaving the employee in the lurch. Cutting all the staff wages by $100 and then paying that hundred in cash to evade the full superannuation payments and tax is leaving an employee in the lurch! Putting the full time office girl down to 3 days a week with no notice is leaving her in the lurch! And now a full cut of everyone's wage by $50 a week, and this idiot of an employer is charging genuine 1960's prices.

And I know what you mean sianne, I made that mistake last year thinking I would get another job easy. I then faced 6 months of unemployment :\ But in this situation it's go for the trial for the DREAM JOB, the foot in the door to the right industry, or keeping working for this turkey who's running the employees and the business into the ground. Arg, but it's like, if you don't get the other job, you're stuffed.

if this guys cutting peoples hours and cutting wages it seems to me this guy is struggleing lets face it if you cut some ones hours / wages they arnt going to hang arround too long so hes in trouble

as for paying the last hundered in cash to avoid tax apart form ebing illegal it wont impact on him as such if your gross income is say 1000pw your take home is say 500pw if he then pays you 900 gross and 100 cash you walk away with more in your pocket but YOU have cheted the tax office you the wage earner is responcible for ensuring you pay the correct ammount of tax

As I jsut said this guy is hurting in the current times business wise find another job and move on it sounds like he's got his own problems to contend with
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Drea on Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:43 am

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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Flathead Kustoms on Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:57 am

Drea, are you an apprentice or was that someone else they pulled out of tafe? Not sure about how things are now but when I did my apprenticeship, it was a requirement for them to pay you to be AT TAFE to complete your training to obtain your qualifications. From memory its a LEGAL requirement for them to pay you to be AT TAFE, (part of being indentured as an apprentice) they can't pull you out of tafe for aforementioned reasons. It's technically in their best interest as well as yours to be at TAFE to gain the necessary qualifications to obtain you trade license. Hope it works our for you soon!
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by mudflap on Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:35 am

Flathead Kustoms wrote:Drea, are you an apprentice or was that someone else they pulled out of tafe? Not sure about how things are now but when I did my apprenticeship, it was a requirement for them to pay you to be AT TAFE to complete your training to obtain your qualifications. From memory its a LEGAL requirement for them to pay you to be AT TAFE, (part of being indentured as an apprentice) they can't pull you out of tafe for aforementioned reasons. It's technically in their best interest as well as yours to be at TAFE to gain the necessary qualifications to obtain you trade license. Hope it works our for you soon!

This is correct, and if the employer were to question it they would be told this is why they are given "Assistance" for employing an apprentice.

I'm all for taking on apprentices (I was one onece my self) but there needs to be other mechanisums in place for terminating them. its almost imposible to punt an apprentice and trust me theres some shockers out there that cant wipe there own bottoms much less carrey out simple tasks after being instructed, I understand its the role of the "master to" teach them but some dont seem to want to learn or care about what they are doing sorry if I got alittle off topic
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Drea on Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:42 am

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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Lolly on Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:12 pm

Drea wrote:Can an employer legally sack you because you've told them/they've found out you're seeking other employment?

How did he find out? Were you looking for the new job in work time? Are you in full employment or still on the initial probation period (in which case they don't need a reason to let you go)? Do you have an employment contract or in the union? Has he got any OTHER cause to sack you that could be used as the legal reason? Have you been issued with any official warnings?

As Mudflap suggested, he could be looking for more excuses to downsize because of the GFC. Employers can't afford to pay wages if they are not making enough profit.

There's no such thing as a secure job in the current economic climate. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Drea on Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:02 am

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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by The Zed on Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:02 am

Drea,
If he's going to do the trail he won't be coming back. I've had a delivery driver do the same thing with one of my competitors, You know what happened, He went to drive for them for two days and then relized that the grass wasn't greener and wanted to come back. No way!!! he lost all respect from my company and he ended up being unemployed for the next six months. He expected me to pay him sick pay while he was off working for someone else!!!
Cheers The Zed.........................
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Flathead Kustoms on Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:46 am

How much longer has Matt got in his apprenticeship? Is it auto electrician? (I was going to get him to rebuild the starter motor and generator for the Caddy but not if the money's going straight to his twit of a boss)
In some ways I can see Zed's point, I wouldn't want my employees ditching employment with me for a trial period with someone else, but if he was looking after his staff then they wouldn't be seeking other avenues for employment then would they? What if the trial was in his holiday period? What he does on his holidays is his own business.....?
I think under law you need to give one week notice per fully completed year of service (don't quote me on that though) same goes from employer, unless you have stolen/ major mistake/ broken company rules etc which if I know Matt, would not be the case.
Hopefully he doesn't have much longer to go with his apprenticeship and maybe he could start his own business working on/ specialising in older vehicles......? Best of luck to him though!
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Drea on Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:50 am

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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Flathead Kustoms on Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:12 am

No worries then about the starter and generator! When Katrina lets me pull it apart/ when it dies/ starts to fail more often, I'll let him know! Always keen to give work to people who deserve it!
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by emily on Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:17 pm

i only read dreas first two post (tldr) but didn't the government legalise the unfair dismissal law a couple of years ago? something along the lines of them not having to give exact details on why the employee was terminated? i'm probably totally wrong on that one, but i do remember hearing a lot about it awhile ago but the details aren't clear in my memory. hope your friend is working things out.

i myself am having troubles with centrelink. i've been in limbo for almost two and a half months now and i call up today and centrelink say they need to investigate the separation certificate i provided. and if my boss confirms that i voluntarily left my job then i have to wait another 8 weeks and i wont get back-payed for these months i've been screwed around.

it's so annoying how centrelink make things so difficult for hard working people who really do need help and yet you see all those lazy assholes who refuse to work and instead pop out 5 kids (who they cant even feed) so they can afford their fags and widescreen tvs, thanks to the baby bonus and various other hand outs.

i would give anything for a job, i've been so bored out of my mind!
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by Gorilla Biscuit on Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:07 pm

EMILY!!! same with me!

I was on a 3month probation period on casual rates (underpaid), I was meant to be put on full time after the 3 months. I worked 4 weeks past the probationry period & nothing happened, They should've fired me after the 3 months OR by defult I should've been put on full time.

I approached my boss & informed him about the legal pay rate & about getting paid correctly & getting put on full time, buuut Because they can't afford to pay me right & put me on full, time he fired me.

He refused to do a seperation certificate, untill I informed him it's against the law.

He wrote on my seperation certificate. "unsatisfactory probationary period"
Which has now caused centrelink to drag their heels & not pay me until 8 weeks time because of the reason of dismisal. that it's my fault because I performed unsatisfactorily.

I have been getting paid $3 less then the base award rate an hour then I should be. I am calling up the young workers hotline tomorrow, They are hopefully gonna go to town on my bosses. & that fucker should be forced to back-pay what I should've been paid.

Centrelink dont know fucking shit, they mannaged to mess my paper work up & write it down wrong. They also lost my drivers licence when they photo copied it. I have worked & casual since I was 14 & full time for the past 3years paying tax. & when I actually need help, the government do the most they can to make it hard for you.

Also by centrelink stalling it & getting into technicalities, It also keeps the un-employment figures down on paper & doesn't look so bad when it gets printed in the new paper, yet there is actually way more people out of work. This saving the government paying people & also makes the government look like they are working at helping people keep their jobs.
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Re: I really must ask opinions on this

Post by emily on Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:18 am

serious, argh thats bullshit. i can't believe your boss was such a jerk about it.

it was really difficult getting my seperation cert., after my boss came back from holidays he was a complete dick to me, his wife threatened me, he withheld my pay, and he hired someone else to replace me so i got no hours. so i didnt have a choice but to quit. i seriously didnt do anything for him to act that way, and everyone else who worked there agreed.

i now also have evidence that my boss has sexually harassed some of the girls who worked there - tickling and grabbing, talking inappropriately about another girl's boobs etc. he's grabbed me a couple of times by the waist but i've just brushed it off. if centrelink don't accept me i was thinking of telling them to justify why i left but my mum said that they don't really care about details.

and if your working casual you shouldn't need a seperation certificate because you don't get any pay when you quit. like you said andrew they're just trying to make it hard so the government looks good.
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